.png)
Caffeine Confessionals
A Podcast Covering Reality TV and Culture with a general focus on MTV's the Challenge
Caffeine Confessionals
The Challenge: Cutthroat Episode 14 Finale Part 2 Recap: That's All Folks
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Allan, Luke, and Zoe get together to talk the final episode of The Challenge Cutthroat.
Welcome back to Caffeine Confessionals. We are here to talk about the challenge cutthroat season finale, possibly the last episode of the challenge. Who knows? My name is Alan. I'm joined by my co-host Luke. What's up, guys? My co-host Zoe.
SPEAKER_01Hi, everyone.
SPEAKER_02And the question we are all asking each other is why was this a two-part finale?
SPEAKER_01Especially when the challenge has such a history of like doing supersized episodes when necessary. Like why I don't know. I don't know if they've got something to prove to Paramount. I don't know if more episodes somehow looks better. I think if anything, we should have done a reunion, but that's just me. Um but yeah, there was no reason that this needed to be broken into two episodes this final.
SPEAKER_03I was bored. Um I mean, I also knew spoilers for months, so like I get it, but the writing was on the wall. I just didn't care.
SPEAKER_01Also, though, Alan, I watched your interview with Letty. Like, how does it feel like there was no point in this episode? Yet they also cut things out of it. Because let's jump into who won, right? Yes. I think so then we can just openly talk about all the things.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna go, spoiler warning to everyone, if you have not watched the finale and are watching this podcast, we are going to reveal who won this season in five, four, three, two, one. The winners of our season is the orange team, which consists of Michelle, Tori, Will, Bananas, and CT. And the crowd goes miles. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, a positive spin. Bananas breaks his record, CT wins in Thailand again. Tori's a two-time champ, which I would argue she should be. Like, sure. Michelle gets her first championship, and Will is an are you the one champ, a new one. Uh sure.
SPEAKER_02They're all very good players, and they were the best team all season. So, like, that it like it makes sense, and it's can compared to the history of the show, the best team actually winning does feel good in that sense, but it just isn't, I wasn't rooting for this team at all all season.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I can't be mad at the show necessarily because the show didn't make these teams. So, like, sure, this team was stacked from day one. I still wish that Justin had made it to the final instead of maybe CT. I'm sorry, that would have been more gratifying to me.
SPEAKER_01I think honestly, just from the perspective that CT's confessionals were making me feel so uncomfortable throughout this whole episode. Like, one, his deterioration in this final and his um the way that production saved him from being the ultimate anchor to this team. But then also just the way that he was gassing up Tori and all his confessionals, knowing what's going on between them on social media right now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so CT has Tori blocked, and he's been liking comments like hating on her. And I think that everybody that has a functioning brain feels this way. I don't care that Tori said that. Money was on the line. Like, hello, and also it's a TV show. And CT should know that he's been in that same position saying that people are being an anchor, and he's being the anchor. Like, why block Tori now? Tori's only fault in this is that she's backing up on this stance and saying, I like to leave with empathy or lead with empathy, and I was thinking in the moment, and I just was thinking about money. Yeah, you're on a game show for money that you've played multiple times. Don't feel bad about this. CT should feel bad that he came into the season unprepared for a final. I just, I can't. I can't.
SPEAKER_01I wish that, like Tori's little speech in this finale where she talks about like really loving and appreciating who she is in her totality as a human. I wish that she would just accept that this is also a part of who she is. Like, you can be a genuinely kind, empathetic person who still sometimes does some kind of cunty things and is like cutthroat and really wants to win. Like those two things can be true at the same time, regardless of whatever Hellscape her comment section is right now. Because, like, honestly, I think people can take multitudes, and I think that you can be like this weird hippie vegan who is making a home for cats in your backyard, and that you did say that you wanted this guy to get medically DQ'd so you didn't have to cut him a check at the end. Like, I'm with it.
SPEAKER_02The duality of man. Tori is trying to win because Tori was on War of the Worlds 2, where she was just an absolute trooper, killing the final the entire time. And then it came down to a puzzle where her game was just simply ended, and she lost a championship right then and there. Tori was also in a season where she was crushing it and was the best competitor in a final, and then all it came down to was run up a hill, memorize some numbers, and then she lost championship right then and there. She threw an axe one time, or did or missed threw an axe one time and lost a final right there. She's just done with the bullshit of these finals, and CT was a number that could ruin a win for her, and so she was going to do whatever it takes to win. And CT is just a coddled baby by his by fans of this show. That's all it comes down to. And the way he was liking those posts on Instagram, I just think he's just in a echo chamber of himself where he'll never take any problems and he'll always, I don't know, he never has to take accountability for anything.
SPEAKER_03Well, and this is also why the show might be over. I hate to be that person that's like, oh, it's over, but it could be because production and TB and whatever variant, whoever, made bananas and CT and Kara such a priority that if they're slighted, or if they're not on a season, or if they're not called back, fans are in an uproar. And yes, they are faces of the show. But in the 30s, there were some other faces being developed who production really truly wronged or just did not do right by. All in the name of making sure that Johnny, CT, and Cara got what they want. Now, Cara did get her uh punishment, something that Johnny and CT will never get. They also didn't complain so much about being on the show, but it's just like I even think back to double agents. You know, there's some speculation that something was off with Amber B solving the math problem with CT and yada yada yada. I don't know. I think the challenge would be in a perfect world right now if Cam and Corey had won that season. I like I'm I'm going back that far to like this was like the beginning of our cancellation. I don't care.
SPEAKER_02Like Luke, we were we were podcasting about that season, and in the moment, I very declaratively said Amber winning this season hurts the franchise so much. And people got so mad about it, and then I said it again a year later on Twitter, and people got really mad at me. But I'm fully in agreement with you because Cam was such a face of the show, and then suddenly, not a champion. We have to divert time to someone who, like an Amber, who is a nice girl, but not someone who can carry the show in any way.
SPEAKER_03And I'm getting off track, but all this is to come back to say production should care about their show to the point where CT is going to make it to the final. Great. Let's medically DQ him because it's interesting TV and it'll cause discourse. That way, if he does come back for a future season, people aren't going to be pissed. I'll tell you that if there's a season 43 and CT is the first person announced and he is still out of shape, I'm gonna be so annoyed. He does not bring anything. Now, I'm not mad at TT for answering the call if they're offering him 100 plus K, but that falls back on production. Your show can make it without CT. It can. It absolutely can.
SPEAKER_01I I think this is a relevant segue into like actually talking about the episode that we just watched, in that, like, I want to know if production hadn't in some, I really think it's it's fair to say they blatantly rigged for the orange team by letting CT skip that large portion of day one. Because according to my notes, there was a 20-minute difference between when orange team and gray team returned to their bases for whatever we're calling it. Um so, like, is it fair to say that if orange team had had to wait with CT while he was getting medically checked out, they would have probably been much more than 20 minutes behind later than what they were, and gray team might have beaten them back and ended up with the 10-minute advantage the next day?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, let's let's do some math out there. Okay, so when CT got medically removed, they were at one checkpoint basically. And then we knew that another checkpoint was what, like one and a half miles away? Or what or they had to do two loops around, so that'd be three miles, right? Sure. It's either one and a half miles to three miles where they're tethered all together, and so they're taking at least 20 minutes to get from that checkpoint to another, I would think, because you're not running at your normal pace, even like even if they're all together, then maybe they're running a seven mile like per minute per mile pace. But when they're all tethered, I would say they're probably running a 10-minute mile pace.
SPEAKER_03At best. Yeah, let's say at best.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So again, that is basically the exact time. But if they're also at that checkpoint, at the other point, they're midway into doing it once CT comes and rejoins them. So it is kind of that exact amount of time that CT was gone, which they were able to perform without him. So if they have to wait for him for that amount of time, then it's doubled to when he gets back. To when they get back to where they were even.
SPEAKER_01And so, like I go going back to what I was saying earlier, Letty alluded to that Cassidy just died in this final. And so I don't know how much how far behind Gray Team actually was in the end when Orange Team finished. Um, again, like poor editing, give us an idea of like how close or not close it actually was. We just want to know at this point. But like between gray team potentially having that 10-minute lead plus Cassidy completely gassing out, like, would the boys have actually pushed a little harder because they would have been playing from behind? Like, I think it just would have been a much more interesting viewing experience.
SPEAKER_02You also have it where like that 10-minute advantage for for Orange was so big because at one point, Orange or Gray was right on their ass and they saw them right behind them, like, oh, hey, CT, we have to run now. You have your walking time, we have to run now because they're behind me. If orange is ahead of them that whole time, I I mean, there's a chance that orange, if if Gray's ahead of them the whole time, there's a chance that Orange would try to push the pace and catch up with them. And then the concept of CT burning out and gassing out and then medically dequeuing is much more likely.
SPEAKER_03It's true. And I'm getting off track again, but I have to say, I remember when spoilers came out for the winners. I was talking with a friend and how this, as much as we're complaining, this is like best case scenario for the show because you are appeasing the casual fans who love CT and bananas. I can imagine that Facebook, those challenge groups are gonna be rocking and rolling when the episode is out. And then also you Yeah, you well, yeah, you also get Twitter. I mean, like we already know, but Michelle winning is kind of cool. We like Michelle. Michelle's been like featured on a lot of, you know, just like niece Twitter, regular Twitter, survivor fans like her. And then Will's basically a rookie, and he's winning. So like on paper, this appeals to all the fans. And I I honestly believe Orange still could win, even if like there was rigging or not rigging involved, but it just sucks that we have to have season after season where it's like, well, what if? Well, what happened here? And what I I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's the part that like we'll never actually know. And knowing that it would have been a cooler experience to get to watch that.
SPEAKER_02I mean, even if you're a casual fan, if you are like boasting this win and celebrating and popping bottles, like I wonder how you I wonder how you just go through life because this just did not feel satisfactory in any like satisfatisfying in any way possible. Because it's just like I yeah, bananas and CT1, did they look good in the final? Not really. They were just kind of the guys who were like the 12th men on the bench of the team to me, like when I was watching it.
SPEAKER_01It's the same kind of person that would celebrate Rachel winning season 40, right? Like, I actually like I've deleted that in my head. Like, I always have to remind myself that she won, and I will never not use air quotes.
SPEAKER_02I think one of the toughest things too is that this orange team has like I said before, I have not rude for them all season, but I think the worst part is that they're not villains. They've just been a really good team who's been doing really well all season through no fault of their own. They've just been playing the game really well. This is not Team San Diego in Battle of the Seasons, where I was so mad, but I was like, ah, like I was angry in a way that they were just so good and so evil the entire season. This orange team just exists.
SPEAKER_01I actually am really excited that Tori and Michelle won. I think that they performed really well in this final, like, and I'm personally a fan of both of them. Again, and I'm I'm really a fan of the way that Tori performed in this final. I thought that like bickering on Orange Team was funny. Like, I I thought that like her kind of breaking the fourth wall at one point and being like, we're all gonna be friends at the end of this when we win. Like, like I just I I d I will not I'm not even rooting against Orange Team. I'm rooting against production doing a bad job.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I just like I even think that last week was not fun to watch either because there are different checkpoints. Because I was gonna say, like, maybe we've just outgrown team seasons, but the World of World 2 final was very interesting because it was neck and neck for quite some time until that final puzzle. And here it was just like we can't get a gauge on you know, finale part one and then finale part two, it's so obvious what's going to happen that why am I sticking around for 48 minutes of my life?
SPEAKER_02We could also acknowledge the fact that this was supposed to be three teams in a final. True in a perfect world.
SPEAKER_01Well, and that actually that's a really good point because I think that makes the checkpoints make more sense because of the way they would have had to be like converging at different times. Um and because they needed to have their pyrotechnics and have the bases blow up.
SPEAKER_02Uh and I, you know, if this was a three-team final, maybe there's a chance that, like, hey, day two, whoever's in third place after day one, you get purged out of the final. Maybe that would have been how they would have done it, just because like they like to purge people nowadays, like mid-final or eliminate people mid-final. But yeah, this was supposed to be a three-team final. This could have been a world where we were watching uh Letty and Josh going up against Chris and Cassidy and Adrian versus the rest of these orange people.
SPEAKER_01Guys, great team would have won, probably, don't you think?
SPEAKER_03Well, I'm truly thinking like if Corey didn't have to leave, Leo got to stay, Chris was not the sole man to go up against Justin, you know, maybe Cassidy would have gotten eliminated. Adrian held her own the whole time. Like those three with Adrian, can you imagine? I would be on this podcast, like, let's turn over 43. Like, come on, like, this is the best show ever made. I mean, there's also a chance that like Letty's running this final by herself and just fucking winning. It's true. And I would have to give her her tens.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she is so laurel-coded, it's crazy. I was actually gonna pose the question to you guys. Uh, do you think great team wins if they don't have Cassidy?
SPEAKER_03No. Well, I'm I'm with you. I wish I could see how much she did keep the team back. Like I know she said it many times. I'm so sorry if like I'm keeping us behind, but if Cara could barely run because her thighs were so chafed, I don't know. I I don't know, because I think Letty could have done it. I think Adrian was keeping a good pace.
SPEAKER_02The way this final was like forecasted from the previous episode is that Letty was their horse, Adrian was doing just a half step better, and then Kara was like a step below them, and then Cassidy was two steps below them. Yeah. Because even if you watch some of the stuff, Kara's not going that fast, and there are moments where they're kind of having to tell Kara, like, come on, you got this one more moment, where like Cara's not doing as bad as Cassidy, but she was their second worst person in the final, which she did fine. Car did great.
SPEAKER_03But if they finish in first place and have 10-minute lead and they don't have Cassidy, see, this is the kind of stuff that like I honestly wish that Annalie had made it over Cassidy. Because I think that she, as dramatic as she has been, which love, thank God for her, she would have worked.
SPEAKER_01She would have crushed that final.
SPEAKER_03Annalie's really good.
SPEAKER_01I think if we had to have crushed that final.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, if we had Anna Lee, Chris, Carr could have gone. Annalie, Chris, Adrian, and Letty, like that would be really cool. That's that's even more feasible, and I would have loved that outcome.
SPEAKER_02But that's once once we start uh like just configuring the best version of Gray, that's when we've gone too far.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, probably.
SPEAKER_02Because like because saying no Cassidy is realistic, because Adrian could have just thrown Cassidy into that last elimination with Justin. And that still could have gone either way, but it's a very real possibility that they don't that Cassidy just loses that elimination to Justin. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you're right though. The what ifs they keep me up at night, but the money.
SPEAKER_01I mean, this is all we have to talk about because there was like nothing in this final, really, in this in this episode specifically.
SPEAKER_02Watching this final felt like watching a video, like a training video where you're putting it on the two times speed and walking away. Um, like nothing of significance even happened. Actually, I do want to say the men on orange were getting so pissy with Tori. And I, to me, like, look, I don't like to play this card too often. I think it's because they were too insecure that a woman was telling them what to do. Because we see men do this shit in finals all the fucking time. We see this all the time on the show, and the second a woman is doing it, they are getting like their britches all tightened up.
SPEAKER_01It's almost like I said it last week.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and even Michelle being like, come on, y'all are big, strong men. You should be outrunning us, and we'll try to play the just because we're men doesn't mean we can't have emotion. I'm like, that's not what she's saying. She's saying that y'all are big, strong men, act like big, strong men and do big, strong things. Jogging.
SPEAKER_01You hit the yeah, I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head. Men behave like this towards people on this show in the final all the time. They talk to people this way, and the women don't throw a fit about it, and they don't like bitch and moan and and say, like, you don't care about me. Like, they just tough it, tough it out and finish it. Um, I also think Michelle one, having Tori's back, being the peacekeeper, and then also just being like, I'm sick of your shit, like get it together and move a little faster. Like they're gaining on us. Um, kudos to her. And I think she gets a leg to stand on for that because of all the work she had done overnight putting those little pellets into the canister, because she did like half of it by herself because she knew these big strong men needed to rest their big strong muscles.
SPEAKER_02I mean, what also a big jump in cardio from for Michelle from season 40 to now, because obviously she did well in the 42 final, but that like 80% of that final was in the water, which is her forte. For her to be this good on land, it's shocking, honestly.
SPEAKER_01Take notes and ask her what she did to get in shape for this final.
SPEAKER_03I kind of loved midway through Michelle's Confessional, which of course was filmed after she had won. She was like, I'd love to be a champ with my boyfriend and the seventh survivor champion on the show, which was nice to see them acknowledge USA 1 and 2. I'm happy for Michelle. I love Michelle.
SPEAKER_02I love Michelle too. But if you said Michelle never back on the show again after this season, I wouldn't mind because this was the all-time low for her as a character on the show. Other than her compatibility, which was badass to see, this was not the Michelle that I've watched for all these other seasons. Like the relationship with Devin has just not made her uninteresting.
SPEAKER_03No, I agree. It's one of those things too where I can't falter for accepting it if they call. But I still love Michelle. I'm excited to see her on Traders.
SPEAKER_01You know, I also I also think that, guys, this is the natural progression of once you're like no longer a rookie, is that your trajectory on the show becomes a lot easier. And because Michelle has such an excellent social game, that's why she won Survivor. Like that it she's gonna be less in the mix of the drama because that's what happens for vets on this show. They get to coast a little bit. And that's that's really why production needs to keep shaking up the cast more and keep casting new rookies and and not have the same vacation alliances or some version of a vacation alliance on these shows, because it just gets easy when you show up season after season.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I'm gonna bring this up one more time and I will shut up about it. But it makes me sad that Cam Williams was not on this season on the orange team. Because if you were to tell, if you were to tell me on 36th, which I think was Michelle's first season, Michelle's gonna be a challenge champ before Cam, I would say you're crazy. And I I know that's the nature of the show, like the best that never was. But like I want to think there's a day that she is, but it's looking bleaker and bleaker every single time that's that time passes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't, especially now. I mean, she's had two babies now, and just with uh balancing everything in her professional personal professional life, I don't see it happening, and it's it makes me sad. Um, definitely never thought Michelle would be a champion when I was watching Survivor. Um, because I distinctly remember there was a challenge on Survivor where you had to throw like a ball through a little like shoot and then run and catch it. And she was the only player in the entire cast with some really old people who couldn't even catch the ball because she didn't have the speed or the athleticism. And yet every season we just watched her improve and improve and improve as a competitor. And each of those seasons I thought, oh, she'll never do as good as this season, but she just keeps doing better somehow.
SPEAKER_03And to tie in my off target point, I will say on 39, we said if Michelle had won the or went to this final, she'd have won it. What if, what if, what if? We can mark that what if off because she's a champion now.
SPEAKER_01Um, what did you guys think about Letty throwing a little shade towards Adrian for taking her cut of the money she earned?
SPEAKER_03I think that Letty is a great athlete. Phenomenal. I think she's kind of a loser though. And I will say that can be one example of the other, you're hanging out with bananas. You're you're like entertaining this. It's weird humor, the like pajamas under the bikini and scrubbing off your skin in the pool and wanting to put on the wig with Cara and Tori. And I'm just like, oh, okay, so well, I I have something offensive to say, so I'm not going to, but I have thoughts about her. Uh, if there's a 43, she has to come back, of course. But in my opinion, Adrian should have taken the 25k.
SPEAKER_00I agree.
SPEAKER_03Girls, I love you. Um, but I won this elimination. I put myself at risk to even make it here. I hate we couldn't get that 500. I would have split that with y'all, but I've got to go home with something. This is for my mom. Peace out. Because what are you gonna say to that?
SPEAKER_02And that that's what's important to know is that it's from the elimination she won with Rachel. Because they did not do a good job of introducing that. They kind of made it seem like it was from the U of C purse they got. No, no, no. That was the money she won. And when Adrian won that, she said, I'm taking this for myself because I earned it. And so the fact that after the fact, she still gave her three teammates five grand to keep ten for herself, I thought was very selfless.
SPEAKER_01And then, like, you get Car of all people looking good because she kicks the five ribbon right back to her and it's like, that's your money. You're taking me to a UFC fight, which is enough. And again, Car is getting one of the fat appearance paychecks to be here, right? So she's made her money just being on the show. Um, Cassidy and Letty, not as much the case, obviously. Um, but I thought I thought Letty was a loser for saying what she said. Like Adrian was getting that money no matter what happened. That was her money.
SPEAKER_02And her great competitor, not someone who fully understands reality TV and this game. Um, and I think sometimes when you have that divide, though, it does actually create good reality TV because you have these people who are authentically themselves because they don't know they're always on a show. It's why I really like that girl Raven, because Raven didn't know she was she was on a show. She was like, she didn't freak figure it out, no.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, she was great casting. Um Zoe, you need to watch Don't Ru Island season two now that this just the season's over and get a better like taste of Letty. Very different personality, I will say, from the season. But there were bigger personalities on that show. Um as far as the orange team splitting it. I I wish Tori would have kept 150 of it. The rest of y'all get 100.
SPEAKER_00I was captain, or even 125. Yeah, keep your keep your 25.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03And she says she's scared of karma, and they even brought up like Tori's karma. I don't think karma applies to reality TV shows.
SPEAKER_01It also doesn't apply to you taking something that's like actually yours that you earned.
SPEAKER_02And I don't think it's absurd for her to be like, yeah, all of you get 100k, I get 150. It's not like an absurd jump. Like obviously, they're losing out on was it 10 grand at that point? But it's like, hey, some of you would not have won this final without me, and that's for certain. So, like, one of you should be in a medical tent still. So the fact that you'd be getting 100k in this situation and a championship on your name.
SPEAKER_03Michelle I went in for you. Will, you did not have to do an elimination, if I'm remembering correctly.
SPEAKER_01Like Michelle was all in when Tori was saying she was taking her captain's fee. Like she was like nodding her head and very much okay with it. Because again, she's not an idiot. She knows that she's not gonna take like 400 and give the rest of them whatever's left over. I think Tori should have taken 130, give the rest 105. Like you keep your 25 and then you split the extra 25 that you found during the final. Like, but that I don't know if maybe she that math was too hard for her at that moment. She was too tired to figure that out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I am most excited, and Alan will not be surprised by this. I'm most excited to see the challenge wiki pages, to see the new adjusted numbers because I love when it's a weird number at the end. I I I'm obsessed. Ashley Mitchell's $1,121,125. Yeah, that's weird. Love it though.
SPEAKER_02Like CT is gonna uh how much did Olivia and Jeremy win last season? I forget, I don't even remember the price total.
SPEAKER_03They got $125 each. Right? It's not great.
SPEAKER_01Um I'm not the right person to ask. I forget these things all the time.
SPEAKER_03I think it's $125.
SPEAKER_01I believe you are. We know where to look if we don't.
SPEAKER_02That's true. So back to gray real quick. Letty. If she comes back, she's probably she's probably gonna come back if she does, if there's another season. And I'd say she's the favorite to win, right?
SPEAKER_03If it's individual season, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, if it's partners and it's her and Annalee.
SPEAKER_01That's a pretty formidable pair.
SPEAKER_02If it's partners and it's her and Johnny Bananas, then just strangle me now.
SPEAKER_01I think it is interesting when they do male-female pairs in eliminations. I think it can cre there's more potential for her to lose there only because Johnny's susceptible to losing to a lot of guys on these casts in elimination.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. If they make it something solo, and but I will say even then, if it was like something physical and then a woman has to go against Letty, then You have to hope that the tie you have to hope the tiebreaker goes to the men, basically.
SPEAKER_03Some of my favorite seasons were partner seasons where two women won together and two men won together. You get four winners, they both feel equally justified.
SPEAKER_02We haven't had a season like that since Rivals 2, though. Like it's like I don't I've always thought Osa 2 like a really good rivals theme was you have a season like that, and they love the twist, and it's like, okay, we're down to like final four pairs. Guess what? Now it's an individual game, and you're competing against your rival. Yeah, that's always been like one of my dream themes. Um, Adrian, I mean, this was such a good opportunity for Adrian to win, and I don't know if she'll ever win again because not because I think because she's a badass and she keeps improving, but a lot of her challenge career has been a lot of like very circumstantial luck where she's not a bad competitor, but just things have rolled her away in the right moments. Like that elimination with Rachel, it was good that it was a pull wrestle because her weight was an advantage. In her elimination with uh D and Derek on like in Theo on that season, it was good that the tiebreaker came down to Theo and Derek. There's a lot of things in her career where it's like she could have easily been out in seasons before.
SPEAKER_03I agree. However, if there's a 43, she's locked just based on her edit, her elimination record, two finals. I actually think she could have the Michelle trajectory, like Zoe said, as you're on the show longer, it gets easier. The vets like her. You know, Banana CT, Car Maria are not gonna be like, let's throw this girl in. She's gonna be considered one of the vets.
SPEAKER_01And the longer she's around, I think the more respect she gets. And people are gonna look at her as someone that's like, oh, they're not gonna potentially drag me down in a final.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And she does kind of remind me a lot of Cam in like she's kind of like a British Cam in some ways.
SPEAKER_03I can see the connection.
SPEAKER_01Like she's like physical advantages and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02Really smart, really good confessionals. Um, holds her, like honestly, it's the fact that she holds herself so powerfully that it kind of like lets people know that she's not someone you can mess with either. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think Cam had like Cam had it's like she was just so so much more commanding of a presence like within the group. I think that like Adrienne does get like the screen time and she does have a lot of those like abilities, but like Cam had it missed. Yeah, like everybody was under Cam's spell almost like instantly. And like people wanted to be close to Cam. They wanted proximity to Cam. They wanted to like help Cam.
SPEAKER_02But like sometimes, like I said, like I'm not even trying to pick a Cam, but Cam also did debut in a weaker era too, and I think that plays a factor as well. Cause like she that that Cam stood above all those people in a way where it's like, yeah, you're gonna stand above Britney Thornton and Nicole Ramos and you know, all these other competitors. Whereas like nowadays the field is so stacked. I don't know if Cam she'd still be really good, but it's just like, I mean, we want we watched this current season and Nerese is like an early boot, and Izzy, who's super fit as an early boot, and all these people are just all so damn good these days.
SPEAKER_03I want to agree, and I somewhat do. I still just think that Cam had a domineering presence, was good at eliminations, was smart, knew how to get people wrapped on her finger, and even if vendetta's she was up against some maybe, I don't know, like final reckoning, it was impressive that she got her and KV as far as she did. World of the world one, like she didn't make it that far, but like she still was a presence. World of World 2, like she was part of the Kara cult, but like Cara wasn't the mastermind of that. Yeah. Yeah. Double agents, she literally had the game on lock. And that was the point where we had some big brother people, some brawlic people, the international people. I still think she could hang if she hadn't gotten married and had children.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, no, it's it's just I I think I think they're both amazing. I just like making the comparison because I'm like, I'm trying to think about if there's someone like I would compare Adrian to from the past. I don't know if there's any other one else I would see.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm I'm struggling to find a comparison. Uh I just think Cam is one of the greatest stars we've ever had on this show.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I wouldn't go that far with Adrian, and I might back off from this. I do think Adrian has a lot of similarities with Georgia Harrison in that she was, I don't want to say shocking, but like she was more competitive than you would assume she would be. She got along well with people. The vets really like found themselves attached to her. She was still able to find herself in drama, like make some decisions. I think Adrian's a step above Georgia Harrison, but I think that's who she reminds me most of.
SPEAKER_02Georgia was really good. Georgia was one of the best daily challenge competitors I've ever seen. Gassed out in the final.
SPEAKER_03I know it was different than this final.
SPEAKER_02But she she gassed out because she was trying, because there was only one winner, and she was trying to keep up with Theo and Turbo and Les. And like, if if there was a female winner in that final, and she and she had to only keep pace with Kara and Ninja, which were like two miles behind them at that point, then maybe that goes differently.
SPEAKER_03Next, I've just had to be reminded of ninja, so let's move on. Like I feel physically ill.
SPEAKER_02Who did she try to get fired from their job? I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_03Amber Martinez for saying that she was brawlic.
SPEAKER_02And I'm like, Well, okay, uh Cassidy. This is a learning experience from her. Um, do you want to see her again?
SPEAKER_03No. Um, I love Cassidy. Love, love. One of the most robbed survivor winners. I hated what happened on USA 2. She didn't bring enough this season for me to be like, you know what, bring it back.
SPEAKER_01What if she comes back ready to like hook up and throw down?
SPEAKER_03I would say yes, but she's been with the same guy since her survivor season. And I also want to believe in love and not, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00She does she have a ring?
SPEAKER_03No. And she might not be, actually, but yeah. Car Maria. Well, here's okay. I want to say move on, but if we're still gonna let bananas and CT be on 43, throw her a bone. I don't care. Like, I want some sort of equity, even if it is with Car Maria.
SPEAKER_02Like she creates a thousand times more storylines, like just by existing.
SPEAKER_03So cannot say something very wildly unpopular. Yeah. I would rather Cara back than Rachel or Avive.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You could say a more popular well-like name, and I'll probably still agree.
SPEAKER_01I have a personal vendetta. So like I can rationally agree with both of you. And I I actually agree with what you said wholeheartedly, uh, Luke, and personally, no.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I I will say my stipulation, which doesn't matter at all, but if I had to give Cara a rule and came back, you cannot talk about how many finals you've been to, because at some point it gets embarrassing you've been to this many and have only won two. You can't talk about how long you've been in this. Like you either compete or you don't. Like you cannot rely on past laurels. And I'm not talking about that one, I'm talking about laurels.
SPEAKER_01I'm not gonna say what I just thought.
SPEAKER_03I'll say something that's also wild and unpopular that I probably don't mean, but if she's gonna come back, bring back Polly. I don't care. Let me see that pressure cooker. My only stipulation there is y'all can't hook up again. Y'all cannot do it. Yeah, let's find out the actual dirt in their relationship.
SPEAKER_02Let's air that out. Let's find not all of it, probably, because I think all of it, some people might get arrested and some stuff. I don't know. There's just a lot going on there, but I I want to know what's going on.
SPEAKER_03Okay, who else?
SPEAKER_00Tori.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think that Tori would come back, we'll come back. I can't blame her for coming back. I would be fine with her not for a season because I think it did wonders for her to not be on 41 and then come back on 42. It felt a little refreshing. I was excited to see her cast picture. It wore off around week eight or nine, but that's okay.
SPEAKER_02Badass competitor over her. She's gonna be back though, so I'm not gonna waste any words.
SPEAKER_00I want to see Tori come back and win again.
SPEAKER_02And if she does so fast. If she does, she'd be fully much be, I think she'd be the greatest female competitor in show history if she were to win three titles. And given how she performed on 40 and all these finals in a row, then yeah, I think that'd be it's it's her and Evelyn at that point if she does it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And this, I was gonna say something earlier that I thought was off topic, but this brings it on topic. Tori gets her second championship, which she now joins a group of a lot of women who have two wins. There's only three that have three, and one of them has a huge asterisk. There are so many men that have more than two championships. And I think that that is part of the issue with I think the viewing experience of the past several years. I understand casuals like when CT wins or when bananas wins, or hell, even when Jordan wins. But if you look at the past X amount of seasons and how many seasons they didn't win, it's far and few between, or few and whatever the saying is, few and far between. And then it's like Devin and Turbo.
SPEAKER_01Like I don't know, and Rogan.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. West won All-Stars three, and that got his third title. But he had to wait like 12, like 10 years to get his third one. So but even then, that's another example of another man getting his third. Um Will, I think, I mean, Will just won a challenge championship. And it to me, it's one of the most disappointing follow-up seasons in challenge history because I thought he was the overall MVP of 41. I thought him and Nani carried that season with their messiness. Um, and this season I thought he brought nothing other than being Deb's side piece for most of it.
SPEAKER_03And I can't even say bring him back with Deb because it'll be dramatic. They're on TikTok all the time, like just buddy buddy.
SPEAKER_01I want Deb back. That's who I want back.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02He is messy though. He is like someone who gets drunk and you know does the stuff. It just wasn't happening this season.
SPEAKER_01Also, it was the format, right? Like he's like trying to just like be a good boy on orange, whereas if he is with a partner or solo, I think he's gonna behave very differently. And because he is like super toxic and and like misogynistic and really like actually in many ways made for the show. I think those parts of his personality would come out more in a more in a partner or in an individual season. So, like for that, he can come back and let's watch him get all riled up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Bananas gets title number eight. Um Uh, I thought he was entertaining episode one when he got thrown into that elimination. And then from there on, he never had to sweat again in the game. And yeah, I mean, but when he has, when he's on his game, he is undeniably like an entertaining menace.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And even with him not being entertaining for the majority of the season, I can't fault that these people. Like I was talking to somebody the other day about Casey Clark and how much she annoyed me. I cannot fault her for being quiet in the house and just trying to make the final win. Like she's if she's getting paid to be there, she doesn't have to entertain us. It would be nice. And I can't even blame production for that because this orange team, as Zoe just said, like kind of knew they could coast. Don't caught, don't ruffle too many feathers. If we get to the end, we're probably gonna win. Which is why, again, like you guys said, don't do a team season, which they they won't if there's a 43, but or don't put people like that on team seasons. Yes. I agree. I I even think that they could have just said like banana CT carrier are the team captains, and nobody would have been like, Well, they're the captains. Just chalk it up to what it is. Um, I am hopeful if there is a 43, that it can be really good because I cannot forget that the first several episodes of the season were really good. And that if Corey's really disheartening DQ and then the DQ of the three men hadn't happened, this the landscape of this season would look a whole lot different. Even if the winner still won, it still would be really cool to see play out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I really think this season was good as a whole. I think this finale could have been one episode, uh, and production shouldn't have blatantly tried to break for the orange team. Um, but like I think, I think when I go back and watch this season, like binge it, I'm gonna really enjoy it for the most part.
SPEAKER_03I mentioned several weeks ago that I had friends coming over one Saturday to binge, and I watched the first seven episodes with them. It was so good. Like, I was like, oh my gosh, I've seen this, I've talked about it, I've maybe even seen it twice. This is my third time, and I'm locked in. So there's hope. And I know people, us included, are like, what if there's not a next season? Paramount's currently merging. Them not having reunion is not that crazy because All-Stars 2 or 3 didn't have reunion, neither did the USA iterations. And honestly, there's drama on social media that's brewing. I don't want to see it hashed out on the stage. If there's a 43, hash it out day one of being there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we would just be getting a fake apology from Tory to CT or like a real apologies. I don't even know. They'd all be pretty cordial. I mean, genuinely, the only thing we're missing from a reunion is all the NLE drama. That is the only thing we're missing from it. Everything else, everyone would have been fake nice about everything. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I rate season 42 as a whole BB plus. And I think it's a top half challenge season all time. It's at the bottom of the top half, but like, this is like the 18th or 20th best season ever to me. Like it was really good for most of it.
SPEAKER_03I'm not walking away mad, but I will say when I woke up this morning and remembered I had to podcast about this, a little bit of dread came in. Not because I hate podcasting, but I'm like, I'm gonna say, yeah, there's not gonna be much to talk about, and I don't love that. And I know that's the nature of a season wrapping up, but there have been finals where I've been on the edge of my seat and I've been like, oh my God, this was so close. And it just I I think this always happens to us, and maybe just let me speak for myself. We get to the finals and they're so anticlimactic that I'm like, oh my God, I feel bored. And thus, when a new season picks up, I'm like, I love the show, it's so good. I need to remind myself you like the season. Don't equate it all to just the final. I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02No, Luke, someone on Twitter was like, How did you like, how are you like giving your review on the season already? I'm like, well, here's the thing. As long as the final is not devastatingly, devastatingly horribly bad, I view the lad like like the two episodes ago as the season finale. Whatever happens in the final, I don't really care. I've seen so many bad finals to this point that I'm like, even this one, it was rigged. I'm like, yeah, but I've seen much more rigged finals, so I'm not that upset. Wow, any final words on the season?
SPEAKER_03I need to see Annalee and Leo back in the house, slightly intoxicated. I'm sorry. Let's find a way to get Annalise's husband on a reality show before the next season films that way he can be eligible. Temptation Island? Yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to maybe I would be but a rider dies, female, female, male, male. Play it out like rivals, but I don't know. Still the money at the end. Don't know if I care that much. I just want something fresh. I want something fun. I don't want a color gradient on the screen ever again.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for saying that.
SPEAKER_02The filter this season is so ugly. There's so many times I've watched this season on my laptop and I've gone to hit the brightness to like raise it up and it's already at max brightness.
SPEAKER_01So weird. Such a weird choice.
SPEAKER_02Fix the color grading. Bring back Annaline Leo. Maybe make a final that's not completely rigged. But for the most part, y'all, y'all did good. And y'all, you know what? Even with that triple DQ, the season kind of bounced back a little bit. Episodes 11 and 12 were pretty damn good episodes of the challenge. So, like, you know what? I'm gonna get people say we complain a lot. Good good job, Paramount. Actually, good job.
SPEAKER_01I think that we complain because we care.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right? Like, I I actually when we are like just talking about the show and analyzing it, it doesn't feel like complaining to me. It just feels it feels like I'm just calling shit for what it is sometimes.
SPEAKER_03Uh is the my only suggestion be make the show campier. I don't know, lean in a little bit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, always more fun, more playful, more silly. Like make them do weird shit. Like, as I don't need them to like have to like run the challenge naked with their rival because that just feels like invasive and inappropriate. But like bring back some of the debaucherist stuff and like like go back to casting single people in their 20s who want to embarrass themselves on national television.
SPEAKER_02Like period. It would be psychotic if we were like, wow, what another great episode of the challenge where nothing was wrong, brought to you by UFC.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's been great podcasting with you guys for another season. Uh, thank you to everyone who listened. Hope you all enjoyed the finale. Uh, we definitely talked for way more, and also we didn't even talk about the episode that much. We just talked about the challenge a greater whole. But I think that's what should be talked about in a finale episode like that. You want to say, oh, and then they ran this way and then they ran that way. Like, no.
SPEAKER_01Uh watch it, I guess.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Make sure to subscribe to us on YouTube, Spotify. I don't know when we'll be back, but we'll be back at some point in your life. So have a great weekend, everyone.